Justin Woodward began out as one of many small cogs within the huge wheel of the sport trade. He studied recreation artwork and design in school. Then he acquired a job at a triple-A recreation firm as a 3D background artist.
However he determined he would slightly be a recreation designer as a substitute of being one amongst many 3D artists. He began his personal graphic design studio, doing duties like emblem design that might join him with entrepreneurs. He discovered methods to fund tasks and create companies. He went on to create an indie recreation studio. He stayed on that path.
He finally began The MIX, the Media Indie Change, to assist recreation startups get seen at huge occasions just like the Sport Builders Convention. He picked up plenty of experience alongside the way in which and now evaluations greater than 700 pitches a yr whereas looking for one of the best startups that deserve consideration. In our session at GamesBeat Summit 2025, we did a fireplace chat about his experiences. And we delved into the hidden ways in which builders can discover cash, whether or not it’s by way of Kickstarter, platform corporations, publishers, VCs and different means.
Right here’s an edited transcript of our interview.
GamesBeat: Our session in the present day is “Sport Funding Diversification for Indies.” I’m glad to be right here with Justin Woodward, who has a protracted historical past within the recreation trade. I’ll have him undergo a few of it right here. Are you able to discuss to us about how you bought going within the indie area?
Justin Woodward: I’ve been within the recreation trade for about 15 years now. I went to school for recreation artwork and design. Went to triple-A shortly after that as a 3D background artist. After that I actually didn’t–throughout that point I actually didn’t dig being a 3D artist. I wished to be a designer. That’s what I went to high school for, and a producer. As I began to determine my very own path, I began a graphic design studio the place I used that to do graphic design, web sites and emblem designs, for entrepreneurs, as a way to discover ways to fund tasks, discover ways to create companies, that sort of factor. After which proper round that point, once I began the graphic design enterprise, I began a grasp’s program in recreation manufacturing administration. I began an impartial recreation studio.
He stayed on that path and acquired to satisfy plenty of mentors within the recreation trade.
GamesBeat: When did you encounter that first must go and get one thing from someone?
Woodward: I used to be tremendous broke. I used to be sleeping on the ground throughout my grasp’s program. I used to be trying into what it takes to get angel funding. This was 2009, round that point. Kickstarter had simply began. We had been one of many first Kickstarters, and we failed, which was very attention-grabbing. However each time there was a chance, we used that pitch to push it additional. All the oldsters that took me below their wing, I used their mentorship to study extra.
On the time–I grew up in San Diego. There was Excessive Moon Studios. Rockstar San Diego. PlayStation, Sony San Diego. Considered one of my mentors was Clint Keith, who was kind of the grandfather of agile scrum. He took me to management workshops, if you happen to keep in mind–they’d this stuff referred to as management boards. He would take me and I’d work with people from EA, Ubisoft, all of those totally different triple-A corporations, instructing them agile scrum. I’d study that as I used to be instructing, after which he was introducing me to people. I used to be an enormous fan of Oddworld Inhabitants. I acquired to satisfy Lorne Lanning, which was tremendous loopy to me. In particular person. He was such a cool man. I acquired the boldness to really feel like I may do that.
GamesBeat: Who was the one that first gave you a break when it comes to funding cash?
Woodward: We had been pitching the identical recreation. We tried Kickstarter. Then we moved on to Nexon. Nexon was making an attempt to get into indie stuff. Then this factor opened up referred to as the IGN Indie Open Home, across the finish of 2010 and into 2011. I didn’t have cash to go. I used to be in San Diego with my beat-up previous Nissan Altima, sleeping on the ground. Considered one of my mentors, who I met–she was from Venezuela. I used to be enhancing movies for her. She stated, “If you happen to take this chance to go as much as San Francisco and get in, I’ll mortgage you $2,000 to cowl it.”
We ended up on one of many management discussion board journeys, which was attention-grabbing. I used to be already in San Francisco. I related with the oldsters at IGN and stated, “I’m on the town. Can I meet you in particular person and pitch you?” They cherished the thought. They principally gave me every week. “It’s important to decide to come back up right here in every week.” I went to Alicia and went to Clint and stated, “What do you suppose I ought to do?” Clint stated, “It’s important to take the bull by the balls and make this occur.” Alicia stated she’d give me the $2,000. We packed our stuff and drove as much as the bay. We didn’t know what would occur, something like that. I used to be capable of persuade IGN to let me write weblog items for my school for an extra $2,000 a month. That helped me pay for it.
We confirmed the pitch at GDC. We had a bunch of individuals come and take a look at the sport. Then Alicia turned the primary investor. She invested $40,000. Adam Boyes, earlier than he was at PlayStation, was taking me to Capcom and Konami and all these totally different locations to pitch. I began getting the boldness to pitch. The following factor you recognize, the subsequent step was I acquired a cope with Grownup Swim Video games. That pushed it excessive. That’s once I actually understood methods to get my grounding in funding.
GamesBeat: What had been some observations concerning the indie ecosystem that you simply encountered over time? San Francisco in some methods turned a Mecca for indies, however dwelling bills acquired so excessive that indies had been priced out of the town. They needed to go additional out into Oakland and different elements of the bay. There’s at all times been this bigger sample that’s affected indies and decided whether or not or not they’re viable.
Woodward: It was very attention-grabbing throughout that point. You’d see this once you had been within the enterprise lengthy sufficient, see the cycles of the place issues are going. On the time social gaming was the factor. Everybody was doing Fb video games.
GamesBeat: That was the precise motive GamesBeat and its first convention took off. Firms like Zynga had come on the scene, and everybody who was competing with them. All these social gaming people had been there. I’d left my job considering I’d by no means cowl video games once more. I went to VentureBeat to cowl startups, and there have been no gaming startups on the time. However unexpectedly social gaming got here alongside.
Woodward: There was a bizarre transition within the time with the arrival of social gaming, and likewise indie growth. For the IGN Indie Open Home, for instance–GameSpy, which was a publication on the time, additionally did backend multiplayer work. They labored with Iron Galaxy and plenty of others. That was their Indie Open Home accelerator. They had been making an attempt to get info for indies about what’s subsequent. They felt that indies can be the subsequent huge factor, which they had been. Tremendous Meat Boy was blowing up. There have been all these large breakouts within the indie area, alongside expertise like Unity turning into well-liked. Unreal was working for indies. It created this landmark occasion.
San Francisco was undoubtedly a Mecca for that. When social gaming noticed plenty of layoffs, because the trade was transferring towards cell–in the event that they didn’t make that shift, there have been plenty of superb, proficient builders who wished to start out their very own studios.
GamesBeat: Typically everybody questions whether or not that new development goes to take off or not. But when it impressed all these buyers to pour cash into the sport trade, it turned out to be a great factor. Get that cash, take that cash, and do what you would with it. Social gaming was a technique. Cell gaming was a technique. In additional fashionable occasions we’ve had blockchain gaming. All this stuff save plenty of recreation corporations from going below, even when typically they didn’t wish to do a blockchain recreation or one thing like that. It’s attention-grabbing that that development has at all times been there.
There’s at all times been this concern, too, that everybody has had across the “indie apocalypse.” Did you are feeling that? Did you ever consider in that?
Woodward: I at all times thought it was BS. Everybody’s frightened of all these things, however you need to know methods to–I hustle. It’s important to know methods to transfer round. As you simply stated, each time there’s a wave, you’ll be able to experience that wave for funding. Across the time after we had been beginning, it was proper when the PS4 was getting its toes. They wanted content material. It was taking so lengthy for them to make first-party video games. The budgets had been ballooning, and the time it took. They jumped into indie. They began to spend money on indie. PlayStation was dropping checks for round $200,000.
Each wave has this. You had been speaking about blockchain, which was attention-grabbing as nicely. That has additionally shifted now. Blockchain fell off, and funding goes again into conventional internet 2.0. You simply must know methods to experience these waves.
GamesBeat: Now we have to reside as much as the billing of our session right here. The place is the cash now? The place is the hidden cash?
Woodward: It’s important to know the place to look. That’s fairly apparent. However I simply talked about blockchain. A variety of people who had blockchain cash, they nonetheless have that cash, however they’re seeking to make investments it in numerous methods. A variety of publishers acquired purchased up by Embracer and Xbox and so forth. A few of these corporations acquired let go. Saber Interactive purchased themselves out. They’re now seeking to spend money on smaller tasks, as a result of earlier than that implosion, their tasks had been round $15-30 million. Now they’ve let go of those large tasks. They’re keen to spend money on video games which might be nearer to the $1-2 million vary. Clearly there needs to be due diligence for this, but when builders could make a recreation for $250,000 to $500,000, that’s additionally a market the place they’re keen to make a wager that’s not so large.
Firms with IP have been keen to make bets. We simply launched a recreation with Nickelodeon, a Rugrats recreation, in October. That was a smaller indie model of title with an enormous identify. Shortly after they noticed what we did, Paramount began to fund extra impartial tasks. A variety of this has been popping up. Platforms, totally different funds–
GamesBeat: Meta put some huge cash into VR video games.
Woodward: Precisely.
GamesBeat: How would you charge a few of these alternative ways of getting cash? You talked about Kickstarter. There are platform corporations, publishers, VCs. The place do you go first?
Woodward: It relies on the place you’re at together with your studio and your expertise, and likewise your relationships. Unbiased publishers, that looks as if a great wager, in addition to platforms. When you have a great marketing strategy and you’re feeling such as you’re going to be making a VC 10X-plus, then it is smart to gravitate your recreation and your pitch towards that–I’m going to say it’s a recreation. Each time you talk with a funder, you need to perceive the vernacular. How do you talk with them? They’re searching for sure issues that others aren’t.
An impartial writer like Uncooked Fury or Devolver, they’re searching for creativity and expertise. They’re searching for your subsequent three video games. Whereas VCs they’re searching for the cash. How is that this going to earn cash? That additionally rides waves, like AI. VCs are searching for AI. Beforehand it was blockchain. Each wave, they’re going to be searching for sure issues to spend money on, as a result of they’re investing in a number of studios. That’s one other factor to think about. Are you making an attempt to fund your studio in the long run, or are you making an attempt to fund one mission? That’s additionally going to find out the place a developer needs to go.
GamesBeat: In what capability are you searching for video games? What do you search for among the many indies?
Woodward: I sort of skipped previous this, however I run The MIX, the Media Indie Change. As I began my studio in San Francisco, I noticed that there was a necessity for builders to get in touch with publishers, buyers, and press. In 2012 I teamed up with some people and we ran this occasion out of the IGN places of work. We had an incredible group of individuals. We had Towerfall and Retro Metropolis Rampage, some huge indies that confirmed up. It was packed. The following yr I referred to as it The MIX. It was even larger. It was tremendous grassroots. There was a line wrapped across the IGN constructing till we couldn’t even slot in there. We needed to get different services. We began doing E3 and that sort of factor.
Now we do 4 or 5 reveals a yr. Now we have one developing throughout the Summer time Sport Fest. Now we have a web-based occasion and an in-person occasion. Now that that is my enterprise, we’ve got an obligation to our companions – one, the builders, two, the press, after which three, our sponsors – to have extraordinarily good content material. Any time we’ve got an occasion, I look by way of, with my workforce, round 700 video games. Throughout a yr I’ll most likely look by way of 1,500 video games or extra. It’s attention-grabbing to see the totally different developments taking place. Once I’m speaking to builders, I’m saying, “It’s important to do one thing extraordinarily totally different.” If you happen to’re making an attempt to do one other roguelike Metroidvania, you’re misplaced within the shuffle regardless of how good it seems.
GamesBeat: What sort of video games are getting traction?
Woodward: Extra emergent gameplay, the place it doesn’t take as lengthy to develop the sport, however each time you play it’s totally different. That’s the roguelike style, in a means, however what’s your twist on it? How are you constructing your group? That sort of factor.
GamesBeat: Desirous about different sources, are there any we haven’t talked about but? Or is the cash actually not there proper now? I see some publishers coming again. Acclaim simply arrange store once more below Alex Joseph. A couple of years in the past there have been one thing like 30 publishers that had gone out of enterprise. When a writer goes down they take so many builders down with them.
Woodward: I additionally helped to run the Humble Black Sport Developer Fund for 4 years, the place we funded builders’ prototypes. Humble Video games–Ziff-Davis didn’t wish to deal in that sort of enterprise anymore, so Humble Video games shut down. What occurs to all of the expertise there? Now there’s a holding firm taking good care of them. It’s very attention-grabbing. The factor about it that’s cool, although–none of that’s cool so far as corporations tanking, however as an illustration, Versus Evil was purchased by TinyBuild. They purchased various corporations proper earlier than the crash. These proficient individuals who ran these studios are nonetheless on the market. Now non-public buyers wish to spend money on these folks. They’ve cash. However they’re privately searching for funds. It’s important to construct your community and perceive the place these people are at, what they’re searching for, and what ‘s on the market.
GamesBeat: We’ve had actual successes. Some triple-A video games have failed, however they depart a gap available in the market. Indies have moved in to take their place within the final couple of years. Helldivers 2, Palworld, Balatro. We’ve seen a lot of video games with a single developer behind them, like Animal Effectively. What do you suppose is going on as you take a look at the patterns there?
Woodward: I undoubtedly suppose there’s a gap available in the market, particularly within the center, the double-An area. Instruments are permitting builders to make double-A experiences, massive experiences on decrease budgets. Additionally, because the world is opening up so far as communication–it’s at all times been there, however now you can work with builders in Brazil, in Indonesia, within the Philippines, that sort of factor. You possibly can have a simpatico relationship the place it’s not simply transactional. That’s opened up the potential for making video games very lean and really shortly. A variety of impartial builders fail after they’re making an attempt to compete with market costs and that sort of factor, slightly than negotiating how they’re doing enterprise with distributors and the oldsters they work with. Actually protecting it lean to flip that for a win. The delayed gratification of being an entrepreneur is actual. You don’t wish to increase $2 million and pay your self $350,000. I’ve seen that sort of factor occur.
GamesBeat: I simply got here again from Gamescom Latam in Brazil. There have been 130,000 folks on the present. I met with plenty of startups there. Newzoo places them at about $7.7 billion in income out of the $180 billion or so for the entire recreation trade. It’s a smaller a part of the market, nevertheless it’s rising at 6% a yr. The U.S. is rising at solely .5% per yr or so. Trying on the Convoy knowledge for the primary quarter, there have been zero offers between VCs and anybody in South America. Likewise there was nothing in Australia and nothing in Africa. The entire cash went into Asia, Europe, and america.
I see a disconnect right here. This is among the fastest-growing areas on this planet for video games. It has a vibrant indie market. But no person is placing cash into it. The cash financing no matter is going on in Latin America is all homegrown. That appears loopy.
Woodward: If anybody is investing, they need to spend money on these studios. We’re working with a studio proper now, one in all our companions, they usually’re doing superb work in full manufacturing. At The MIX we work with builders all around the world – Europe, Latin America, Southeast Asia. We see so many nice video games now. The Latin American Sport Showcase, David Lucio is operating that. There are such nice video games developing there that are actually at The MIX or in Day of the Devs or any of those showcases, as a result of they’re high notch. That’s the place issues are going to go. If buyers are good, they’re going to start out trying there. I do know there are plenty of taxes and laws and hoops you need to bounce by way of. It prices a bit extra if you happen to’re working with people in, say, Brazil.
GamesBeat: If there are methods for underrepresented communities and recreation builders from these communities to get funding–is there recommendation you’d have on that entrance?
Woodward: From The MIX, I additionally began a nonprofit referred to as Expertise Studios, which has a fund, the XP Fund. We ran an accelerator with Netflix Video games to assist black builders. The nonprofit can be doing enterprise as Black Voices in Gaming. Now we have a group that works with tons {of professional} builders. A variety of it’s simply entry. Entry to networks. Understanding the place the funds are. Being ready to do these pitches. However the expertise is similar. Discovering the cash is similar. There could also be extra funding choices, like by way of our program. A variety of this has dried up as a result of political local weather.
Xbox has performed loads within the area. We work with them for his or her DAP program, the Developer Acceleration Program. They’ve been doing issues behind the scenes for years that folks didn’t learn about. These are the oldsters you wish to discuss to. Likewise PlayStation has had one thing behind the scenes. They’re not blasting it out to the world, however they’re funding tasks from underrepresented devs.
