How the builders of Stalker 2 weathered the Ukraine struggle to make their recreation | The DeanBeat

If anybody can say they’ve had challenges making a recreation, the group making S.T.A.L.Okay.E.R 2: The Coronary heart of Chornobyl could make that declare. And if it ships the sport to shoppers on November 20, that can be a victory in itself.

But the builders of GSC Sport World in Kyiv, Ukraine need to ship this recreation to point out that they by no means gave up on a challenge that has been getting into full gear for almost seven years and talked about even longer. They haven’t given up regardless that the group was disrupted when Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale struggle on February 24, 2022. Russia had attacked earlier than in 2014, seizing a few territories. However this was a struggle for management of all of Ukraine, and the struggle continues to today.

Builders needed to depart to go to struggle. The electrical energy repeatedly went out and it nonetheless goes out in Kyiv, the place the majority of the group is. Missiles repeatedly rained down on town they usually nonetheless do, with anti-missile rockets intercepting the incoming missiles earlier than they’ll do hurt.

If and after they ship their recreation, they need to be an inspiration for an business that has had suffered by layoffs, declining gross sales, a pandemic, social media hate, and extra previously few years. If GSC Sport World can get this finished, then others can overcome their hurdles too, similar to these Ukraine athletes who gained the medals for his or her nation within the Olympics.

I spoke with Ievgen Grygorovych, CEO of GSC Sport World, and Maria Grygorovych, artistic director at Gamescom. They’re a husband-and-wife group, working one among Ukraine’s greatest and finest identified recreation corporations with 460 staff. But they’re simply an indie recreation studio. They unfold out into new areas similar to Poland and Prague and elsewhere, with some working distant.

Ievgen’s brother Sergiy began GSC Sport World in 1995 as an organization that localized video games to the Russian market. It went on to create the Cossacks collection of video games, and it started growing and publishing its personal in addition to third-party video games. Ievgen joined the corporate in 2001.

S.T.A.L.Okay.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl got here out in 2007 and it was a hit as a first-person shooter. It mixed concepts from the novel Roadside Picnic with the actual world catastrophe of the Chornobyl nuclear meltdown, positing that this created a Zone the place hunters often called Stalkers might go to search out anomalous treasures. However they ran the chance of working into enemies together with monsters unleashed by the radioactive contamination.

Two extra Stalker video games got here out in 2008 and 2009, however none was referred to as Stalker 2. Actually, the prior CEO, who was Ievgen’s brother, requested him to make Stalker 2 and Ievgen stated no as a result of he didn’t assume the group was able to tackle such a giant challenge. The corporate introduced Stalker 2 in 2012, however that group by no means completed and it was rebooted altogether afterward.

Ievgen finally relented. “It was a loopy enterprise choice to start out this challenge, however we have been positive that we’d do all the things doable,” Ievgen Grygorovych stated in our interview.

Abandoning earlier instructions, they created a plan and constructed a brand new group. They labored on getting the script proper from the beginning. After six rewrites, they lastly began transferring ahead.

Even with out these exterior challenges, the sport was formidable, even for builders who had been engaged on video games for many years. The group began with new expertise. They got here up with an inventory of duties and broke it down into lots of of 1000’s of duties, Ievgen Grygorovych stated. By the tip of the method, a lot of their relations misplaced family members within the struggle.

One Stalker 2 developer, Volodymyr Yezhov, was killed within the struggle with Russia. In December 2022, he died in a battle close to Bakhmut, defending town from Russian attackers. GSC Gameworld has made quite a few donations to reason behind Ukraine and it solicits funds from guests to its website online as nicely.

Throughout all this time, they by no means thought-about shutting down the sport. They felt like a duty towards their nation to get it finished, to place Ukraine on the map of the sport growth world. Once they noticed their countrymen and ladies win medals on the Summer season Olympics, they have been proud, they usually need the nation to be pleased with their work on Stalker 2 — even to the purpose of utilizing the Ukrainian model of the spelling of Chornobyl (as a substitute of the Russian Chernobyl).

It’s been a tough highway and the longest journey. With some satisfaction, the Stalker 2 leaders joined an image with the Xbox European recreation dev group in Cologne, Germany. What’s their final lesson? In recreation growth, you need to actually love the method, Maria Grygorovych stated.

Right here’s an edited transcript of our interview. Disclosure: Devcom paid my the place to Cologne, the place I moderated a few panels on the Devcom developer occasion.

GamesBeat: How do you keep resilient sufficient to do that for such a very long time?

Ievgen Grygorovych: It’s a tough challenge for us. It’s enormous. We began from scratch. We began with new expertise. We began earlier than the present technology of consoles appeared. We began with a largely new group. We had a complete lack of expertise within the transfer to consoles. We have been a PC-only recreation developer earlier than. It was a loopy enterprise choice to start out this challenge, however we have been positive that we’d do all the things doable. We had loads of expertise making video games. I’ve about 24 years making video games.

Prior to now we have been requested at totally different instances to make a Stalker 2. All of the earlier instances I refused to start out making it, as a result of it’s a really formidable challenge. The participant expectations can be very excessive. It might be a really lengthy journey, a really laborious journey. Whenever you’re not very younger and also you perceive what that’s going to be like, the way you’d should work and the way nerve-racking it will be, it’s laborious to say, “Sure, I’m prepared to try this.” Whenever you’re younger and skilled you don’t know what you’ll should undergo making this type of recreation. You’re extra more likely to say sure.

The final time, we talked with Maria and we determined it was time to do it. We began from that time. It’s been a giant a part of our lifetime. From what I can see now, it’s going to be an excellent recreation. We’re pleased with what we might obtain. We didn’t anticipate that we’d do it, however we did it. We’re nonetheless a bit nervous. You by no means know the way gamers are going to take your recreation. However inside me I believe that we’ve finished all the things doable in our scenario.

We’re an impartial developer. We have now loads of limitations that different builders may not have. We have now all of the conditions linked to the struggle with Russia. With all these difficulties, we’ve nonetheless come so far the place we’re close to the discharge. It’s been an extended journey.

GamesBeat: How lengthy have you ever labored on Stalker?

Maria Grygorovych: For me it’s been since 2017.

Ievgen Grygorovych: Sure, the identical for me.

GamesBeat: The primary set of video games, the primary three video games, did you’re employed on these?

Ievgen Grygorovych: I used to be working with the corporate, however on totally different video games at that time. I hadn’t been engaged on Stalker. However we sat simply close by. I used to be within the RTS growth division, main the RTS line. I’ve been with GSC since 2001. I had labored there part-time earlier than, however 2001 is once I joined up as a full-time job.

Maria Grygorovych: I labored in cinema and TV earlier than I joined GSC. In 2016 they requested me to assist out for a few days. It’s been eight years since. I used to be a producer on some initiatives at first.

Ievgen Grygorovych: She had expertise that would assist us with video games that have been approaching launch.

GamesBeat: When you consider how lengthy it’s been, do you consider it as sure phases? Altering instructions or engaged on various things. How do you clarify the time concerned?

Ievgen Grygorovych: There’s a sure diploma of uncertainty right here. After we began, we didn’t have a blueprint for growing these sorts of video games. We began by writing a brand new plot and story. At first we needed to collect the group that might do that challenge. The primary large discover was a narrative author. We discovered somebody with loads of expertise within the growth business in Ukraine. He has way more expertise than I do. We obtained began engaged on the story, and once we seemed on the first idea, we stated, “No, this isn’t Stalker 2.” We moved away from that and began once more.

In the long run it was totally rewritten about six instances. These are lengthy tales. He’s an expert. He wasn’t afraid to drop all of it and begin once more. After these six instances, we had the story we wished to inform with our recreation. We have been pleased with it. It was very detailed. The entire historical past of this world, ranging from 1960 till the sport begins. That was the place we might begin.

Then we took on constructing the world map. We knew it will be an open world, however how large? Is it 16 sq. kilometers or 64? It was somewhat loopy. We determined to do one thing greater than everybody normally does. We did eight kilometers on a facet, 64 sq. kilometers. It has loads of underground areas as nicely, loads of tall buildings. There are areas above and under. Total, the world is large.

Maria Grygorovych: I don’t assume we actually developed this recreation any greater than anybody normally does. A variety of corporations have way more expertise. They’ve their group constructed from the start. They’ve some huge cash. They don’t have any points with a struggle happening, something like that. They usually nonetheless work on a recreation for six or seven years. In our case, we began this recreation from scratch with a completely new group. We had corona, struggle, issues with the electrical energy. Half of our group has had loads of hassle with the electrical energy for the previous two years. They will’t work correctly day by day. With all these points, we’re nonetheless near launch. A variety of corporations take that a lot time with none of those points.

GamesBeat: I keep in mind Stalker 2 being introduced a very long time in the past. How lengthy has this challenge taken?

Maria Grygorovych: There was a reset, so this has been about six years. This has a completely totally different group, a completely totally different method. Nothing is similar.

GamesBeat: You talked about there have been different video games, however nothing you considered Stalker 2. What did it imply to you to have one thing that might be referred to as Stalker 2?

Ievgen Grygorovych: I actually love my earlier video games. A few of them have been very profitable. Some weren’t so profitable from a participant’s perspective, however they have been profitable for us as expertise in making one thing distinctive. For me, I can say that Stalker 2 is one thing completely epic. Beforehand I had expertise with RPGs, with turn-based technique, and with a mixture of RTS and RPG. A few of these have been very totally different, very experimental initiatives. It wasn’t simply copy-paste. Stalker 2 was simpler than that in a means, as a result of we had Stalker to start out from. The brand new recreation needs to be a successor, persevering with what we had within the first recreation.

We had some foundation for the gameplay design, a blueprint for what we needed to obtain. In that sense it was simpler. However having completely new expertise, a completely open world and so forth, that was an enormous problem. Making a really large recreation sounds tough, however like all tough activity, you’ll be able to break it down into smaller duties, after which will probably be easy. You simply should do lots of and 1000’s of easy duties. It simply takes loads of time. You need to be a really calm particular person to work six years with out having a product you’ll be able to share. It’s a lot simpler to do quick initiatives, the place you might have one thing to launch after a cycle of, say, two years.

Maria Grygorovych: In recreation growth you actually need to like the method. Actual satisfaction will come after these six years. It is advisable to love the method that leads as much as that. You could possibly have a few youngsters in that a lot time. If you actually need to have that satisfaction straight away, you may not need to go into recreation growth. It is advisable to be a affected person particular person.

Ievgen Grygorovych: I like the method of growth, fixing these duties.

Maria Grygorovych: It is advisable to love and respect the individuals you’re employed with, if you happen to’re going to spend so a few years with the identical individuals.

GamesBeat: I’m in a science fiction ebook membership. I learn Roadside Picnic, and I used to be astonished by how totally different it was from Stalker. Do you see any resemblance to that authentic materials?

Ievgen Grygorovych: We really didn’t have a goal to make a recreation by the ebook. It’s very totally different, as you say. We stay in a completely new time. There’s loads of new science fiction now. Sport design is way more superior. We are able to’t simply make good science fiction. We have now to make a superb recreation. The story must drive that recreation. We weren’t aiming to make it by the ebook.

GamesBeat: It looks like the Zone may be the one factor that’s nonetheless there from the ebook. The concept of a particular place on this planet that’s very totally different.

Ievgen Grygorovych: The most important factor that Stalker 2 takes from the ebook is the concept of those anomalies, sure. They’ve unknown origins. When you haven’t examined it, you don’t know the way they work. Lots of people have died to grasp how these anomalies work within the recreation world, simply as within the ebook. The concept of artifacts, gadgets have some unknown impact that additionally must be found. And the concept of an object you utilize to search out the anomalies.

All the pieces else is totally different. It’s a special location, about 100 kilometers away from our house in Kyiv. It’s an actual place, and it’s an enormous catastrophe after the Chornobyl accident. It has loads of connection to our private tales. I used to be born within the 12 months of the nuclear catastrophe. Our mother and father might inform by the earth shaking that one thing was taking place, however the authorities didn’t inform them something. Nonetheless, everybody might see that one thing was taking place. They determined to maneuver me and my brother away from Kyiv to a different a part of Ukraine, to Donetsk, with my grandparents. It’s very linked to what occurred in our lives. Ranging from this a part of the world, it’s logical for us as Ukrainian builders.

However briefly, it’s very totally different from the ebook. It’s influenced by our experiences, private experiences, and a few options from the ebook. That’s the way you get the sport.

GamesBeat: The struggle got here to disrupt all the things. What needed to change for you? What did you need to do to adapt as soon as that began?

Ievgen Grygorovych: The quick reply is that all the things modified. However it’s totally different whenever you have a look at the group’s private lives, our private lives, how we stay, our objectives, our pursuits. For the event, it was a really laborious second. However we have been ready. We had ready all the things in order to not let this have an effect on, as a lot as doable, our group’s lives, their households’ lives. We have been prepared for evacuation earlier than the struggle began, and we did it.

Maria Grygorovych: Nonetheless, it’s a completely totally different life from the day earlier than the struggle began. Emotionally, for everybody – everybody in Ukraine, everybody on our group – it’s some extent the place you perceive won’t ever be the identical once more. At some factors it’s laborious to work, emotionally. You see tragedy taking place day by day, each couple of days. It’s a standard factor for missiles to hit Kyiv close to our workplace. It was actually scary at first, and it’s nonetheless actually scary now. You may’t adapt for moments like that.

Ievgen Grygorovych: What occurs if it drops 100 meters, 500 meters away from the goal and it hits your workplace, together with your individuals there? What are you going to do at that second? It’s very nerve-racking. We did all the things doable. We have now a bunker simply close to our workplace. It’s an precise bunker constructed for nuclear assault. We’ve requested everybody to go there when there are missile alarms. However nonetheless, there’s an opportunity it might occur.

Maria Grygorovych: And generally a very fast missile strike can occur earlier than the alarms sound. 

Ievgen Grygorovych: It may be a four-minute missile.

Maria Grygorovych: However you have to work, so that you simply work. It’s laborious to elucidate to somebody what it’s prefer to work like that, or what you’re feeling. A variety of our kinfolk, individuals in our households have died within the struggle. It may be your brother, your mom. A few of our individuals have misplaced their mother and father. After that you simply go into work and get again to the sport. When you’re doing one thing, it’s somewhat simpler to maintain from going loopy. However on the similar time, it’s been two and a half years. It’ll be three years quickly.

For the individuals who moved to Prague, it’s not the identical as being the same old sort of immigrant, the place you determine to go someplace that you simply need to go, and you may return house everytime you need. It’s totally different being a refugee. It’s not your choice to depart your nation. It’s one thing you needed to do to guard your self, to guard your youngsters or your loved ones. It’s laborious.

GamesBeat: Did you need to cease work collectively for some period of time?

Maria Grygorovych: It was nearly two months. 

GamesBeat: Did you take into account transferring from Kyiv, going additional west?

Maria Grygorovych: From late December 2021 we have been planning for what we’d do if an actual struggle began. What staff ought to do. Russia had already attacked Ukraine in 2014, nevertheless it was only some territories. Now we have been planning for a struggle that might have an effect on the entire nation.

GamesBeat: Did you lose loads of workers who enlisted or have been conscripted?

Maria Grygorovych: Sure. It’s an honor to think about them our associates and colleagues. None of them have been skilled troopers. They have been programmers, QA, neighborhood managers who determined, even earlier than the full-fledged invasion, that if it occurred they might enlist. They went to the recruiting facilities on the primary day to struggle for our nation.

Ievgen Grygorovych: They’re nonetheless our staff.

Maria Grygorovych: After our victory, I hope they’ll come again and maintain working.

GamesBeat: Have any of them been capable of come again but?

Ievgen Grygorovych: No, they’re nonetheless combating. There’s nearly no method to cease for now.

GamesBeat: Did you ever take into consideration stopping the sport, shutting down the challenge?

Maria Grygorovych: No, that was by no means an possibility. It was only a matter of taking a look at every challenge and determining how one can remedy it.

Ievgen Grygorovych: It is a laborious challenge, nevertheless it’s a weapon towards Russia. When Ukrainians could make one thing so large, so identified to the world, it’s a method to struggle on the inventive entrance. We’re not risking our lives, however we’re doing one thing to separate Ukraine from Russia, to spotlight Ukraine. These are various things. We’re speaking about what’s taking place in our nation. We gained’t let the remainder of the world overlook in regards to the struggle. It’s nonetheless happening. If we fail, it’s going to be unhealthy for everybody who lives in western Europe and the remainder of the world. We’re preserving Russia out of regular life in Europe. We’re doing it by highlighting the struggle with what we do, with our interviews, with no matter methods we’ve got.

GamesBeat: When you stopped work in Ukraine, Ukraine would change into weaker. By persevering with this work, it appears like you’ll be able to assist maintain Ukraine sturdy

Ievgen Grygorovych: Like our sportsmen profitable medals on the Olympics. They’re additionally combating for our nation differently, utilizing the strengths they’ve.

Maria Grygorovych: Whenever you do one thing with loads of love and soul–our dream is that lots of people will love this recreation. They’ll perceive that we exist. Ukraine exists. Ukraine can create these items, deliver life to nice video games. Like CD Projekt has finished for Poland. Lots of people around the globe know of Poland due to CD Projekt. 

Ievgen Grygorovych: We’re bringing Ukraine to your PC display.

Maria Grygorovych: However not in an aggressive means. Throughout the recreation we’re not making an attempt to make an apparent assertion towards Russia. We need to present like to our tradition and convey that to gamers around the globe.

GamesBeat: You’ve drawn loads of assist from gamers. Is there something significantly memorable you’ve seen?

Ievgen Grygorovych: We have now lots of people defending us. When somebody who isn’t similar to you is prepared to defend you, to talk for you – “Don’t fear that they modified the discharge date. These guys are going by quite a bit.” – for me it’s a means they assist us. It’s not simply individuals who would possibly purchase our recreation when it releases. They’re combating for us. That’s been necessary to me.

Maria Grygorovych: I’ve seen individuals put up some humorous memes. “A developer publicizes that they’re going to be late due to the coronavirus. Stalker builders: ‘Maintain my beer.’”

GamesBeat: As you come towards the end line, what are some stuff you’re nonetheless engaged on? Is there a special feeling now that a few of the most tough work is behind you?

Ievgen Grygorovych: There’s going to be a giant sigh of reduction after the discharge. However earlier than that, it’s nonetheless laborious. At this level I can say that loads of the gamers who’ve performed the sport like it. We have now that proof that we put collectively a superb design and did good work. It’s a lot simpler to complete the sport when you recognize that you simply’ve reached a superb ambiance and a superb problem for the gamers. It’s a lot simpler to complete a recreation like this when you get it to gamers they usually can take a look at it and let you know what’s good.

GamesBeat: Are you on the level the place you’re getting loads of suggestions from testing?

Ievgen Grygorovych: We nonetheless don’t have it within the arms of the entire viewers. It’s exterior QA, QC, individuals at our writer. However they agree on loads of issues. We all know that there can be at the very least some individuals who assume the identical means.

Maria Grygorovych: Generally, as a developer, you may get within the mindset that it’s actually unhealthy, it’s a catastrophe, there’s no means you’ll be able to present it to anybody. Then somebody performs it and says, “It’s so cool!” Perhaps it’s good in any case? I don’t know many different builders, however inside our firm we at all times need to do increasingly more. We’ll positively maintain working after the discharge to maintain working towards what we need to do. We’ve constructed a universe. There’s not likely some extent the place you’ll be able to say you’re finished and that’s all. We are able to maintain bringing extra into this world.

Ievgen Grygorovych: We have now loads of concepts for issues we wished to do in Stalker 2 that we determined ought to wait till after launch. We nonetheless have loads of issues we need to add to the sport. Launch day isn’t the purpose the place we’ll cease making the sport. It’s simply the purpose the place gamers will get it and begin giving us suggestions. We’ll begin speaking with gamers in regards to the recreation design.

Maria Grygorovych: There are some options you’ll be able to launch with out and it’s completely okay, however you continue to need to do it, as a result of it’s cool.

GamesBeat: What has working with Microsoft been like?

Ievgen Grygorovych: They’ve been useful round two large issues. One, the technical half. They devoted an skilled group from their expertise group to assist us with optimizing sure issues for Xbox. It’s been excellent to work with individuals who have that sort of low-level expertise. The second half is emotional assist. They’ve been very supportive. They’ve proven the sport on their channels, and never simply because it’s a superb recreation, however as a result of–I really feel like they’re sympathetic to our private scenario, what we’re going by. They’ve been prepared to assist us on a private degree. It’s been crucial for me. If an organization this large believes in us and is prepared to make use of its assets to assist us, perhaps we’re necessary in any case.

Maria Grygorovych: It’s a uncommon scenario. Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond have helped us in loads of other ways. It’s not simply enterprise. They’re simply good individuals. Lots of people from Microsoft have helped us out from totally different factors of view, even when it wasn’t essentially straightforward for them. They love video games they usually’re good individuals.

GamesBeat: How would you set followers’ expectations at this level? Is there something you wished to say to elucidate the latest delays, the place it was moved to November?

Ievgen Grygorovych: Our purpose is to make a superb recreation. We’ll do something to make that occur. Our goal is to not launch the sport in the mean time the place gamers anticipate it. Our goal is to launch the sport when it will probably meet gamers’ expectations. I’m not afraid to delay the discharge if it’s to perform one thing good. 

We’re positively in a tough scenario the place it justifies the delays. It’s laborious to elucidate to individuals–you’re on a Zoom video name together with your colleagues, engaged on the design, after which the sirens go off. Half the group on the decision has to stand up and go to the shelters. That impacts growth. You may’t predict what number of missiles Russia goes to launch at Kyiv. When that occurs, the alarm impacts the entire area. It’s laborious to elucidate that to somebody who hasn’t had that have. They could perceive the details, however they haven’t felt it. We are able to really feel it. We are able to justify transferring the discharge to make the sport good, as a result of we all know our scenario. We all know what we’re going by. We have now the ethical proper to delay the discharge till we make this nearly as good as we are able to. 

GamesBeat: You might have lots of people pulling for you. I believe they’ll perceive.

Maria Grygorovych: Our delays aren’t solely due to the struggle. That’s necessary to level out. It’s a giant, tough challenge. We have now points generally that we have to repair. It’s a really advanced recreation technology-wise. We’re engaged on new platforms. Generally we have to push the discharge date simply because we’d like extra time to make things better and polish. Proper now it’s largely all the way down to bug fixing and extra bug fixing. There are expectations from the gamers on the market that we need to meet.

Not each developer has this type of independence. Each developer wish to have extra time to complete their video games. That’s a privilege not everybody on the market has. We don’t have Microsoft demanding that we launch the sport on a sure day. We have now a really heat relationship. Some individuals may not anticipate that they might be like that, nevertheless it’s fully true in our case. 

Ievgen Grygorovych: Even with out the struggle we’d have delays. We have to make the sport higher. It’s coming all collectively now.

Maria Grygorovych: We’re doing this for our gamers. We’re not a giant firm with some huge cash. Each delay, for us, it’s laborious financially. We don’t have cash coming in from different initiatives.

GamesBeat: How many individuals are engaged on the sport now?

Maria Grygorovych: It’s 460. That’s probably the most we’ve ever had. Each delay is difficult, but when we do it, it’s as a result of we actually want to repair one thing or add one thing. We actually have some points that we have to remedy.

Ievgen Grygorovych: My level is, we’ve not been growing this recreation for a very long time. We’ve been growing it for a standard period of time. However for us it’s tougher to foretell a precise launch date. Our capability isn’t completely beneath our management. My level in regards to the struggle, it’s about our planning capabilities.

Maria Grygorovych: For instance, it’s a typical scenario that each evening we’ll have alarms for a complete week. Folks don’t get to sleep. We have now 240-250 individuals in Ukraine. In a single week the larger half of your group may not have gotten any sleep.

Ievgen Grygorovych: Or the electrical energy is out throughout working hours and it’s solely on at evening. You might have one hour of overlap between time zones to have conferences. We’re not complaining. However we’re simply making an attempt to speak the details of the scenario.

GamesBeat: Is it true that one among your individuals was killed within the struggle?

Ievgen Grygorovych: He labored on the unique trilogy, sure. And one actor, who did voice-over and movement seize for Stalker 2. He died a number of months in the past. Perhaps a 12 months? Time flows very in another way proper now.

Maria Grygorovych: It’s a nervous factor. A variety of our individuals have relations who’ve died within the struggle. Our staff are on the entrance strains. One in every of my greatest fears is that in some unspecified time in the future will probably be somebody shut. Folks die day by day. You by no means know.

GamesBeat: Properly, I stay up for enjoying the sport.

Ievgen Grygorovych: We’re ready for the second we are able to deliver it to gamers. 

Maria Grygorovych: I’m hoping for it. I want some level of satisfaction. It’s finished! And we’ll maintain going after that. However we’re very drained.

Ievgen Grygorovych: I’m sorry that a lot of this has been unfavourable.

Maria Grygorovych: It looks like we’ve talked extra about struggle than in regards to the recreation.

GamesBeat: It’s actual life. It’s a real story. It’s good to listen to it.